tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20406961.post5581600190815545477..comments2023-06-07T09:13:41.693-05:00Comments on Episcopal Chaplain On the High Ground: On Professionals Praying With PatientsMarshall Scotthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02807749717320495495noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20406961.post-43156909123913140532009-07-05T12:22:56.819-05:002009-07-05T12:22:56.819-05:00I would like to add one thing. Prayer is important...I would like to add one thing. Prayer is important I guess we all know. But physical touch can be so important too. I wrote once on my dad's blog that to be touched by a person who cares for you is so important at least to me. I am not really talking about the romantic touch, that is fine too, but the touch from my mom and from the priest who placed one hand on my dumb head and made a cross on my forehead when I was in the hospital. That is not prayer but I felt the priest really cared for me when he touched me. Sounds crazy.<br />Thank you for letting me be in this discussion. FrankAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20406961.post-86646084876460102242009-07-04T21:28:57.207-05:002009-07-04T21:28:57.207-05:00Frank, it can be a problem, although I don't k...Frank, it can be a problem, although I don't know that's it is so much associated with being young. Indeed, I know many senior Catholic patients who are anxious if they see clergy. They were raised with the concept of "last rites" - the thought that the sacrament of anointing was given only to those who were dying to secure their entrance to heaven. Really, anointing was and is a sacrament for healing (notwithstanding that sometimes the most complete healing can only come in the Kingdom). The Catholic Church in the Second Vatican Council emphasized this again, and it's what the Church teaches. But, some of those older Catholic patients are just too familiar with the understanding that they grew up with - you only got anointed if you were going to die. So, if they see someone in a clerical collar, they can panic. Or, members of their family might <i>expect</i> them to panic, and so not want to call a priest or chaplain for them.<br /><br />So, people can be anxious if they don't know what to expect from a priest, or if they have too specific an expectation.<br /><br />No, Jack, a chaplain doesn't carry a knife. On the other hand, I do try to have incisive comments....Marshall Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02807749717320495495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20406961.post-84772962727687788002009-07-03T14:11:27.147-05:002009-07-03T14:11:27.147-05:00Let me add just a bit, then I'll go away.
I k...Let me add just a bit, then I'll go away.<br /><br />I know some doctors personally. They all have some theological/non theological beliefs. When I go to a doctor I very much feel he is the 'dominant' one. If he ask me the prayer question I would try to guess his religious sentiments and to at least half way agree.Sure, candy ass! I would NOT feel that way with a Chaplain. I would assume the Chaplain had been trained to the sensitivity of this situation. Also, the Chaplain doesn't carry a knife:) JackAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20406961.post-48916772241309445102009-07-03T13:56:22.504-05:002009-07-03T13:56:22.504-05:00Just got in from Tennis. Our university has one of...Just got in from Tennis. Our university has one of the best tennis complex in America.<br /><br />I have not seen what my dad said but here is what comes to me.<br /><br />In our part of the country there are very active and agressive religions that try to convert you to their church.<br /><br />I have had three experiences with this matter. When I was in the accident that broke my toes, the hospital filled out a form for me and ask my religion. I put Baptist which I was at the time. There was a Baptist minister in the hospital at the time though the hospital was catholic. The minister was nice but he ask me if I had accepted Jesus as my personal savior. I was very embarrassed. I was only 19 and there were other people standing around like a nurse and a couple of people getting me ready.<br /><br />After that I have been in the hospital twice. I was catholic then, but one of the surgeries, maybe both, were hard to talk about. I was 21. A priest came by both times and talked to me (about football)and ask if he could make a sign on my forehead.I said yes, and it meant something to me. I was glad he did it. But if he had ask if he could pray for me I think it would have scare me. Maybe like, I might die.<br /><br />I was young and still embarassed when a nurse saw parts of me. Maybe now I am older and would react differently.<br /><br />I really think this can be a problem for young people especially. Do you think it makes any difference because of the age of the patient? FrankAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20406961.post-45886637343230163992009-07-03T13:42:30.201-05:002009-07-03T13:42:30.201-05:00"That said, I find in my own work that many f..."That said, I find in my own work that many folks can accept as an expression of good will the thought that someone might pray for them, even if they would not pray themselves or want the other person to pray with them."<br /><br />In this case, Jack, "they" are patients. That is, many patients accept the thought that someone might pray for them as an expression of good will, even if not one they would think. There are, of course exceptions - patients who don't want anyone to pray with them, nor to think that anyone might pray for them. But most folks appreciate good will in almost any form.Marshall Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02807749717320495495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20406961.post-76991632912215919012009-07-03T12:25:06.109-05:002009-07-03T12:25:06.109-05:00You will get two responses from here. This is old ...You will get two responses from here. This is old Jack. I am going to respond first and then later Frank will respond. Frank will be free to answer as he thinks best. He is out playing tennis now ("rich brat"):) but will come in this afternoon.<br /><br />First let me say that the discussion on the other blog wasmost interesting, but was erased because the blog owner did not like some of the responses. The blog owner had posted about an English doctor who got in a little trouble because he ask a non-religious patient if he could pray for the patient. The blog owner thought the doctor was right in doing so. Curiously enough, the majority of responses said the doctor was wrong. Then the discussion got deleted.<br /><br />For most of my life I have had great health, but now in the seventies I am getting used to hospitals. Two Catholic hospitals and one non-affiliated hospital. I might note a personal doctor I had for several years was president of our local "Christian Doctors Association." He never asked if he could pray for me.<br /><br />I oppose a doctor asking such a question. I think your point about the difference between the doctor(the 'expert') and the the patient(the 'subserivent' one in this situation) is important.<br /><br />If my doctor, just before cancer surgery---which I have had---were to ask if he could pray for me, would I not have to say "yes." The doctor is human and would not my "no" answer lessen his interest in me even just a fraction?<br /><br />Or, reverse it. Assume my doctor is a non-believer and I ask him to pray for me and he says he is a non-believer what position does that put me in?<br /><br />It seems to me, then, that the doctor should be left out of this and the chaplain used if a person desires prayer.<br /><br />I am not hard nosed on this. When my father died of cancer when I was 15, the sisters at the hospital ask if they could baptize him just before he died because as one said: We don't want to be anyplace where Mr. H..... isn't. My mother was pleased. My parents were not Catholic. My dad had been baptized, but still....<br /><br />Frank has had two surgeries since he has been with us. One minor, and one a bit more serious because of some abuse in underwent when he was 15.I think he might have been confused had doctor ask him if he could pray with Frank. Maybe, it would have scared him; I don't know. I'll let him say later.<br /><br />BTW, one paragraph in your response was a little confusing to me. In the paragraph beginning "That said..." I got a little confused on who "they" was.<br /><br />Thanks for your time and ideas. Frank will respond when he comes in. JackAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com